August 2nd, 2011 // 22 Comments
Filed: Tech
My 15-inch MacBook Pro is three years old — I got it in the summer of 2008 — and it has been a wonderful, beautiful, powerful computer, a constant and beloved companion, traveling everywhere with me. I’ve written mountains of words on this thing. But a few months ago something strange started to happen. First, last fall, I noticed that the MBP didn’t seem to last very long on a charge anymore. Last November, suspecting a fragged battery, I’d bought a new one. But in May, things got worse. For no apparent reason the MBP would just put itself to sleep, or sometimes shut itself down, for no reason, with plenty of power apparently left on the battery.
I went to Apple store. They found nothing wrong but said I’d been using the wrong charger. (My wife has an older MacBook with a different charger and I had been using that to charge my machine.) Diagnosis: User error, start using the right charger again, and you should be fine. Okay. Just to be safe, I also ordered yet another new battery, figuring that maybe I’d fried the one I bought in November.
Problems persisted. Back to Apple store. Nice guy tried wiping everything off the machine, all the apps, everything, and installing Snow Leopard. Went home — still having crashes.
Back to Apple store. This time they turned the problem over to a higher power. I didn’t have an extended care warranty for this machine, but for $310 they could send it out and the “depot” would fix anything wrong — hard drive, logic board, whatever.
I paid the man and hoped for the best. Two or three days later the MBP arrived on my porch with a new logic board — and it was still crashing.
Back to the store. Sent it out again but this time the guy in the store said I should have it sent back to the store so they could check it out thoroughly before giving it back to me. Fine. We did that. Got the call, come pick it up, she’s all set.
Got there and found that the experts at the depot had simply replaced the battery. The almost brand new battery that I just bought in May.
I told the kid at the store, Um, this isn’t going to fix the problem. Kid shrugged and said, Uh, well, that’s what they did.
On the way home I called Apple Care. Nice guy there said I should go home and try it because maybe it really was the battery. Also, he said, I could try doing an SMC reset — something I’d tried before when the problem first started happening.
The guy also said maybe the machine was getting too hot, and I told him yeah, it gets really really hot, so hot that I can’t put it on lap anymore, and he said the MBP is not actually a “laptop,” meaning you’re not supposed to use it on your lap. “We call them portables, not laptops, and that’s for a reason,” he said.
Okay, I said, I’ll go home and try not putting it on my lap.
But, guess what? It shut itself down.
But, still feeling hopeful, I tried doing the SMC reset again. And just to go the extra mile, I bought a Targus fan thing that you put the “portable” computer on and it blows cool air up into the bottom of the machine.
Guess what? This time it worked — for a couple of weeks.
And now it has started shutting down again, crashing so often that I basically can’t use it.
A friend who works at Apple said I should call back to Apple Care but this time, “Insist on speaking to Customer Relations.”
Okay, I did that this morning. First explained to one woman what was going on, so she could write it all down and tell the person in Customer Relations. Fine. I sat on hold, waiting.
Finally got through to “Natalie,” in Customer Relations, who was not a native English speaker, and who asked me what’s going on. I explain that my MBP is shutting itself down intermittently, that I’ve been to the store several times and it’s been to the depot twice, and it’s still shutting down.
She says, Yes, so what is the nature of your problem?
I say, I just told you, it’s shutting down for no reason. It does this so often that I can’t use it. And I’ve been to the store numerous times and they keep saying it’s fixed but it’s not.
She says, Have you tried taking it to an Apple retail store?
I say, Yes, several times.
She says, Well I am sorry but I cannot diagnose your problem over the phone I think you should take it to the retail store.
I say, Yes, I know, but someone who works at Apple said that before I do that I should call Customer Relations so that you can make sure that this time when it gets sent out it actually gets fixed, because last time they just put in a new battery which was ridiculous.
She says, Well, I have not seen your service history.
I say, Well, can you look up my service history there using my serial number?
She says, Yes, I’ll put you on hold and read it.
I waited. And waited. I contemplated hanging up and dialing back in, hoping to get someone better — but just as I was about to hang up she got back on.
Okay, she says, you should go to the retail store, I will set up appointment for you, there may be a new charge for the repair.
I tried to get some clarification from her on what kind of new charges there might be, but after a series of back-and-forths I just gave up.
So, off to the store I go.
Yes, I know I could just get a new machine. And maybe I should. I got three good years out of this one, so why throw good money after bad?
Anyone have any advice?
Yep, get a new one. Why waste precious life time on annoying things like that. Plus, Apple may just give you one after reading this article, after all you stopped writing FSJ..
That’s… not what’s supposed to happen when Customer Relations gets involved.
I worked as a Mac Genius at one of the stores in Massachusetts for a couple of years, a couple of years ago. Policies may have evolved since I was there, but in general I think things aren’t all that different now. With that in mind:
• Any computer sent in for in-store or depot repair has a 90 day warranty on the same issue coming back, which clearly seems to be the case here.
• The Mac Geniuses are (or at least were) empowered to override stock policies, so for example if you’re beyond 90 days, but there is a clear pattern of the problem not being resolved, then they can accept the computer for another repair & waive the fee, under the circumstances.
• In extreme cases — and this may be tipping in that direction — the Geniuses are also empowered to authorize replacing the computer outright, typically with approval from a Manager.
• When Customer Relations ends up getting involved, and they are persuaded that the problem is real — which, bizarrely, sounds like it may not have happened in this case — they will some times send down an edict from On High saying to replace the computer when the customer arrives. However, like I say, the store staff are also empowered to come to this conclusion on their own, if that seems to be an appropriate solution to the problem.
• Dropping the “I used to be Fake Steve” line may work in your favor. Then again, it may get you kicked out of the building.
• Dropping the “I am the technology editor for Newsweek” line may also work in your favor, and with less controversy.
• If you can convince them to replace it, get Applecare for the new one, on the spot. In general, if a customer comes in and has Applecare on their computer, the store staff tend to be much more willing to stretch the rules in the customer’s favor.
Good luck.
Save your time and buy a new computer.
It does not have to be Apple though.
I’d stand inside the store at the ‘Genius Bar’ and insist on speaking with someone from customer relations with the guys there. I went through 3 refurbed iphone 3G’s before I told them enough is enough and that I wanted a brand new model instead of the refurbed ones that keep breaking. I got on the phone with Customer Relations at the Genius Bar and 5 minutes later a brand new iPhone 3GS was being shipped to me as I offered to pay the $100 difference between the new models.
Next time, buy a new MBP with apple care this time
Had the same problem with the last several Apple machines I’ve had (mac minis & laptops) – they seem to start mysteriously dying right after the extended AppleCare runs out. You go through the support gauntlet and don’t get anywhere. I considered it a learning experience and the next time I needed a machine, I built one. Whenever I feel like maybe giving Apple another chance (after all, it’s pretty hardware) I don’t have to look far to find a story like your own.
Sorry I don’t have any practical advice. I guess factor this experience into your next purchase decision.
I’m loathe to do this I suggest searching Consumerist.com because they may have executive contact information that will allow you to go right to “the top”. (I’m hesitant to suggest Consumerist.com because they are a bunch of smug self-righteous assholes but I have used their executive contact info to get some relief from Verizon Wireless in the past.)
Other than that the only thing I can suggest is trying to make the machine have an issue while you’re at a genius bar. Then again the only Mac I have ever owned has only needed one repair… after 4 and a half years.
Good luck though. Do you think all these people know you’re Fake Steve and thus they’re screwing with you?
Are you serious? You were FSJ, and you can’t get satisfaction from this issue?
In my experience Apple products tend to be rock solid. When a lemon actually escapes China they are simply unprepared to deal with it. They really should just reach a point in your service history where they offer you a refurb at a low price or something.
My advice is to keep sending it back and keep telling the world what happens. Then we can all see when Apple blinks.
One possibility (although this should have been discovered at the “depot”) is that the fans are clogged. I have a similar vintage MBP and it was running very hot (not actually shutting down though) until I replaced the fans myself. Now it runs much cooler and much quieter.
Could be a couple of things. First off, does the fan go nuts when you’re (a) syncing (particularly if you’ve used Busycal) or (b) you’re using flash or a piece of software which is three or four years old.
The fact it keeps shutting down suggests that its getting too hot and shutting down to protect the logic board. If it is the sync, you can ask apple to wipe the database they keep of your syncs using the Apple Support page (or try holding the option key down and select sync in the menu bar. You should see a bunch of new options popping up).
Plan B would be to replace the drive, maybe with a solid state drive. If its doing a lot of drive access, that again would make it hot.
Finally, add more memory. 8 Gb costs about 80 bucks through amazon or new egg. The extra ram might might it run cooler (as again it won’t be accessing the drive as much).
Hope this helps
Paul
You should try calling back into customer service so they can send you back to the store so they can send you back to customer service………..
after all of that i would either try and find an authorized apple repairman or just give up and buy a new MBP.
On a side note, it is nice to see you are still alive. i about shit my pants when the feed reader showed you had a new post over here.
Dan,
I hate to tell you this, but you are basically hosed unless you can get an Apple field sales manager to champion your case.
My experience includes nearly twenty years at Apple, and I was director of federal sales when I got shown the door so I know the inner working of the company.
If you can get a current Apple manager interested in your case they (if they are high enough up the ladder) can take it up the chain to “Executive Relations.” Those folks work for Steve and the other high level folks at Apple. One of their roles is to make sure there are NO significant ripples on the Apple pond.
They have the authority to actually do something which your case sounds like replacing your computer.
I discovered a significant flaw with my billing on MobileMe and sent a note to an executive that they could either fix the problem instantly or I would go public with it on my Applepeels website. I got a call the next morning from executive relations and they called me every day until the problem was resolved. They are generally sharp people who know the people who can really make things happen.
I haven’t had particularly good luck with my Apple “portable computers” since I left the company. My first Aluminum PowerBook had a bad lower memory slot (not covered by the warranty extension) and the ribbon cable gave out on the display after less than two years. It is actually an easy repair but Apple won’t sell you the parts. My son was an Apple certified technician while he went to college so it would be easy to fix problem if I could get the part. I had some friends still at Apple try to get me the part internally. They couldn’t even get it so I made the decision to buy a new computer instead of sending it to the depot.
Then I got one of the early MacBooks. It discolored, battery died, and showed very similar symptoms to yours. Luckily mine was still under warranty so after arguing a lot with the support people, they finally let me FedEx it to the repair depot instead of going through the store and having to drive three hours each way and deal with people who have no authority anyway.
In a stroke of good luck, a new logic board and a new battery fixed mine. There are some systems that almost defy fixing. I can remember one dual PowerPC system that we were trying to fix when I was at Apple. My system engineers and Apple service people replaced every part at least once and some twice except for the case. We never did get it to work right. We ended up using it for parts, and I don’t remember any of the parts giving us trouble.
Fortunately for me my 2006 MacBook is still working, but I can’t afford to deal with Apple on laptops anymore so I am mostly using an HP I7 system. I got my wife and I systems about eighteen months ago. She got a 14″ I5 and I got a 15″ I7, the two together cost under $1,500. Windows 7 does exceptionally well, and it has yet to hang or even require us to force quit an application.
You might con me out of an executive email by phone, but I wouldn’t post one online. I’m easy to find.
Yikes. Not fun. Having spent the money to get it fixed, I’d go back to the Apple store and demand that they indeed fix it.
You’ve sort of ruled out software by having SL reloaded, although loading Tiger or Leopard if convenient would help exclude it totally. And the cooling pad working for a time suggests a hardware related heat problem, which could be a logic board problem, a fan problem, a fan controller problem, etc. A quick check there might be to load fan controller and dial up the internal fan. If the machine doesn’t crash, then you’ve pretty much confirmed that it’s heat related.
It’s almost definitely thermal in nature. Try Temperature Monitor, which is a free download from http://www.bresink.com/osx/TemperatureMonitor.html
Also, see about getting the fans cleaned out or possibly replaced. You can also try turning up the fan speed with smcFanControl, at http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/23049/smcfancontrol
Wait, this blog is still in my Google Reader feed after no posts for a year?
I, too, can vouch for the Exec Customer Relations team. I had a White G3 iBook (my first mac) and the logic board died three times during my exams. Emailed Steve and got a call back from execs who swapped it for a PowerBook! I was blown away, it really cemented their reputation which was slightly tarnished to me by that stage.
I’m also pretty sure that apple policy is to replace a machine if it’s not fixed on the third attempt. Speak to a store manager if you’re not getting what you want from a Genii.
Dan,
Try a PC.
Advice: Thinkpad + Ubuntu
Probably not the advice you’re looking for, but this combination has served me very, very well for several years. Thinkpads are really solid hardware, with excellent warranties and good customer service. I exclusively buy the X-series, as I like portability and long battery life, though the T-series has served me well in the past. And Ubuntu is an excellent OS, if I do say so myself
Best of luck, Dan.
0-th: Always get the AppleCare plan. Always renew it. I bought a 2006 MBP that began having problems in 2008 (overheating, optical drive failure). Replaced with a brand new Core 2 model. Then in 2010 more problems (another optical drive failure, bluetooth issues). Again replaced with a Core i5. Each time they let you reset your AppleCare plan.
First: never go to the store, ever. They lack the time or the tools to actually make repairs to your “portable”. Also, at least for the store near me (Chicago, Michigan Ave.) it’s always mobbed and a “reservation” for 2pm will only get you service by 3:30. At least for AppleCare stuff you can insist upon an overnight FedEx to and from your front door. They’ll try to talk you out of it, but don’t let them.
Second: sounds like you got a bad Customer Relations person. They have the power to replace your laptop; some are willing to do it more quickly than others. Just find the right person.
Third: be sure to document your service experience. Write down rep’s names, on-hold times, total-call times and what was discussed. Each of my replacement cases had > 8 hours of total call time. That kind of detail will get you VERY far with Customer Relations.
Dan, Dan. DAN!!! (last Dan said rather shrilly)
My God, Is this what you’ve come to? Dan, who once had me breathlessly waiting every single day for his side splitting fake Steve Jobs posts? Oh, the hilarity of those golden days! What a tough break you took, just at your apex of fame, Jobs goes and gets sick. Did I ever tell you how much I admired you for backing off from him at that time? I sincerely mean that, you were on such a roll, and then he goes and gets sick.
So now your laptop *which you probably bought at the height of your fame) is sick too. Whatever. Go get a new one. Are you still single?
But he has no warranty. There is no expectation that computer should last forever. I am sure Dan has freelance income that he can use to expense the laptop as business expense (essentially use pre-tax money) and since we all know journalists are making a killing these days, that’s like 50% off. Its a no brainer really.
Like laptops, there is no expectation that love lasts forever either. As evidenced by Poor Dan’s (my new moniker for him) latest collection of comment section flunkies. What a bunch of nerds! Where are the dashing, brilliant and witty John Hancocks’es of yesteryear? (Not at The Daily Beast, I can tell you that much.)
Note: This review is from sooemne who knows very little about computers. Although I truly enjoy PCs and will still continue to keep and use my PC laptop, I felt it was time for a change. It took minutes to load up videos and photos, and I was starting to get very frustrated with the entire process. I hadn’t considered purchasing a Macbook Pro before, because I felt the cost wouldn’t be worth it. I spent over a month researching and reading and watching reviews. I finally took the leap. The following describes features of the Macbook Pro that I find important to an everyday user. External Appearance: I sometimes look at the laptop and get surprised by how thin it is. However, once I lift it up, I am surprised again by how heavy it is. Apple has done an amazing job at creating a laptop that thrives on outward simplicity. The cold aluminum feels strong and almost indestructible. The Magsafe adapter is a great feature to have, especially if you need to connect your laptop and sit further away. A trip over a cord easily separates the adapter from the laptop, and nothing is harmed. At first I was surprised that there were only two USB ports, but I can’t imagine a time where I will need more than two. The difference I noticed from my other laptop is that there is a lack of ports which might add to the fact that it has an incredibly simple design and that it uses only what it needs. What it thrives on is what’s inside. The Screen: I was originally considering getting a large monitor for the Macbook Pro, so I could easily edit documents and pictures. It’s not worth it. Even watching Youtube videos looks great. I was looking at pictures taken on a simple point and shoot camera, and they looked phenomenal on the screen as well. However, the glossy screen can seem like a mirror at times and can get incredibly annoying. 15.4 inches is perfect for anyone considering making the Macbook Pro their primary computer at home. iLife & other apps: I haven’t used iLife as much as I would want, but I was able to look at the Mac app store, and I am pleasantly surprised by the quality of apps provided. If you love writing, Scrivener is great for drafting stories, novels, screenplays, and poetry. iWork is also available at the app store. Each of them are sold separately for $20.00 each, which is cheaper than purchasing iWork altogether! Pages and Numbers are incredibly intuitive, and they definitely compete with Microsoft Word and Excel. Like the app store for the iPod Touch, iPhone, and iPad, there’s something for everyone. There are apps for work, play, and everything in between. Speed: From opening Safari to opening apps, there isn’t a glitch in speed. Once I start editing film, I’ll update if it changes but if not, that means it’s still working amazingly. I did play a few games and not only are the graphics amazing, but there isn’t any stopping or starting. Finder: I didn’t think it would be very useful until I downloaded a program and had no idea where it went. Finder (of course) finds every single thing on your Macbook Pro, but it does it with speed. Trackpad: I wasn’t sure whether or not I would like the trackpad. I didn’t like the original settings but once I changed it, I’m not even considering getting a mouse. It’s fun experimenting with it at first and learning the different motions on your own. The trackpad has made surfing the web easier than before. Keyboard: I was hesitant about the backlit keyboard. I love that I can type at night, but I am used to the keys being closer together. It did take a couple of hours to get used to it but once I did, it vastly improved my typing speed. The spaces between the letters helped, and the fact that the keys aren’t raised high definitely helps. Even better? The keys are practically silent. Heat: I had read reviews about how hot a Macbook Pro gets but after a week, I haven’t noticed any extreme heat. Again, I haven’t done anything extreme, so I will update if it changes. Portability: If you decide to take the laptop around, I would recommend getting a case for it. It is prone to scratches and dents, so any protection helps. I carry the laptop in my backpack, and the weight is quite noticeable. I think it’s something I’ll get used to, but I’m still surprised by its weight. It is, however, a great device to carry around but if I wanted it for true portability, I might have gone with the 13.3 inch or possibly a Macbook Air. Given the fact that this my primary device used at home, I prefer to keep it there unless I know I will absolutely need it. The hard drive and RAM are completely replaceable. People were disappointed with the slow performing 5400 RPM hard drives, but I honestly don’t see a difference in speed. If it is a huge problem, again, it can easily be upgraded. I plan on upgrading the